BusTalk

Q65A

The following roster was assembled from GM production lists posted on OMOT's website. Please feel free to make corrections as necessary.

GMC COACHES, NYCTA/MABSTOA

TD4502
315-317 1 ST 1021-1023 06-07/41
318-321 1 ST 1031,1027,1024,1028 06-07/41
322-325 1 ST 1025,1032,1029,1033 06-07/41
326-329 1 ST 1026,1030,1034,1048 06-07/41
330-339 1 ST 1035-1044 06-07/41
340-342 1 ST 1050,1051,1049 06-07/41
343-345 1 ST 1052-1054 06-07/41
346-347 1 ST 1045-1046 06-07/41
348-352 1 ST 1055-1059 06-07/41
353-354 1 ST 1047,1060 06-07/41
173-175 1 NYCO 800-802 05/41
205-204 1 ST 1011-1020 12/40
236-287 1 NYCO 803-854 05/41

TD4505:
0278-0302 2 Eighth Avenue Coach Company 855-879 05-06/42
0309-0311 2 Eighth Avenue Coach Company 886-888 06/42
0313-0318 2 Eighth Avenue Coach Company 890-895 06/42
0408-0417 2 Eighth Avenue Coach Company 905-914 04/42
0418-0419 2 Eighth Avenue Coach Company 916,915 04/42

TD4506:
0341-0358 FACCO 2200-2217 11/45
0359-0383 FACCO 2218-2242 04/46
0385 FACCO 2244 04/46
0387 FACCO 2246 04/46
0389 FACCO 2248 04/46
0393-0394 FACCO 2252-2253 04/46
0391 FACCO 2250 04/46
0396-0400 FACCO 2255-2259 04/46
0401-0425 Madison Avenue Coach Co 1700-1724 04/46
0426-0440 NYCO 1725-1739 04/46
0441-0458 1 Eighth Avenue Coach Corp 1740-1757 04/46
0459-0483 1 NYCO 1758-1782 04/46
0704-0706 1 Comprehensive Omnibus Corp 701-703 06/46
0707-0709 1 East Side Omnibus Corp 301-303 04/46
0970 1 NYCO 1783 07/46
0979 1 NYCO 1784 07/46
0984 1 NYCO 1785 07/46
0990-0991 1 NYCO 1786-1787 07/46
1000 1 NYCO 1788 07/46
1008 1 NYCO 1789 07/46
1032-1033 NYCO 1790-1791 09/46
1038 Madison Avenue Coach Co 1830 09/46
1039 NYCO 1792 09/46
1041 NYCO 1793 09/46
1048-1051 NYCO 1794-1797 09/46
1053-1057 NYCO 1798-1802 09/46
1058-1064 NYCO 1809,1808,1803-180709/46
1067 Madison Avenue Coach Co 1831 09/46
1080-1083 Madison Avenue Coach Co 1820,1810,1811,1832 09/46
1084-1087 Madison Avenue Coach Co 1812,1813,1821,1814 09/46
1088-1091 Madison Avenue Coach Co 1815,1822,1833,1823 09/46
1092-1095 Madison Avenue Coach Co 1816,1834,1824,1817 09/46
1096-1099 Madison Avenue Coach Co 1825,1818,1826,1835 09/46
1100-1103 Madison Avenue Coach Co 1819,1827,1828,1829 09/46
1104-1200 ST 1100-1196 11/46

TDH-4507:
0001-0103 ST 1197-1299 11-12/46
0161-0164 FACCO 2273,2289,2290,2275 11/46
0165-0168 FACCO 2260,2261,2291,2278 11/46
0169-0170 FACCO 2279,2262 11/46
0171 Mad. Ave. Coach Co. 1836 11/46
0172-0175 FACCO 2292,2280,2277,2263 11/46
0176-0179 FACCO 2264,2265,2293,2294 11/46
0180-0183 FACCO 2274,2266,2281,2295 11/46
0184-0187 FACCO 2282,2276,2283,2284 11/46
0188-0191 FACCO 2296,2297,2267,2268 11/46
0192-0195 FACCO 2287,2271,2272,2298 11/46
0196 FACCO 2288 11/46
0197 Mad. Ave. Coach Co. 1837 11/46
0198-0201 FACCO 2299,2269,2270,2300 11/46
0203-0204 FACCO 2285-2286 11/46
0205 Mad. Ave. Coach Co. 1838 11/46
0209 Mad. Ave. Coach Co. 1839 11/46
0211 Mad. Ave. Coach Co. 1840 11/46
0212-0213 FACCO 2301-2302 11/46
0214-0215 Mad. Ave. Coach Co. 1841-1842 11/46
0216-0226 FACCO 2303-2313 11/46
0227-0228 Mad. Ave. Coach Co. 1843-1844 11/46
0229 FACCO 2314 12/46
0230 Mad. Ave. Coach Co. 1845 11/46
0231-0250 FACCO 2315-2334 11/46
0251-0256 FACCO 2339-2344 02/47
0257-0260 FACCO 2335-2338 02/47
0351-0550 ST 1300-1499 02-03/47
0801-0850 ST 1500-1549 08/47
0876-0900 ST 1550-1574 08/47
0901-0906 NYCO 1846-1851 06/47
0907-0911 FACCO 2345,2346-2349 06/47
1701-1725 ST 1575-1599 01/48
1726-1760 Eighth Ave Coach Co/NYCO 1852-1886 12/47-01/48
1851-1900 NYCTS 2000-2049 01/48
2061-2070 FACCO 2356-2362,2353-2355 03-04/48
2071-2072 FACCO 2351-2352 03-04/48
2073-2099 NYCTS 2050-2076 03/48
2121-2195 NYCO 1887-1961 04-05/48
2231-2253 NYCTS 2077-2099 04/48
2366-2395 NYCTS 2100-2129 05/48
2396 NYCTS 2039 05/48
2660-2714 NYCTS 2200-2254 07/48
2754-2760 NYCTS 2255-2261 08/48
2820-2857 NYCO 1962-1999 09-10/48
2858-2894 NYCO 2700-2736 09-10/48

TDH4509:
0156-0200 NYCO 2737-2781 03/49
0311-0365 NYCO 2782-2836 05/49
0389-0448 8TH Ave. Coach 2837-2896 06/49
0639-0688 NYCO 2897-2946 12/49
0860-0934 FACCO 2363-2437 05,06/50
1097-1171 NYCO 2947-3021 11,12/50
1566-1606 NYCO 3056-3096 05,08/51
1607-1640 NYCO 3022-3055 05,08/51

TDH4510:
001-500 NYCTS 4000-4499 (1948-1949)

TDH 5101:
001-400 NYCTS 4500-4899 (1948-1949)

TDH5104:
0076-0125 - FACCO 2502-2551 11/52
0151-0160 - ST 1050-1059 09/53

TDH5106:
0070-0099 - ST 1060-1089 08/54
0919 FACCO 3100 08/56
1117-1124 - NYCTA 7000-7002,7071-7075 10-11/57
1125-1132 - NYCTA 7003-7005,7140-7144 10-11/57
1133-1138 - NYCTA 7006-7009,7076-7077 10-11/57
1139-1141 - NYCTA 7145-7146,7010 10-11/57
1142-1148 - NYCTA 7078-7081,7147-7149 10-11/57
1149-1153 - NYCTA 7011-7013,7082-7083 10-11/57
1154-1158 - NYCTA 7150-7152,7014-7015 10-11/57
1159-1164 - NYCTA 7084-7086,7153-7155 10-11/57
1165-1170 - NYCTA 7016-7018,7087-7089 10-11/57
1171-1175 - NYCTA 7156-7157,7019-7021 10-11/57
1176-1180 - NYCTA 7090-7091,7158-7160 10-11/57
1181-1185 - NYCTA 7022-7023,7092-7094 10-11/57
1186-1191 - NYCTA 7161-7163,7024-7026 10-11/57
1192-1196 - NYCTA 7095-7097,7164-7165 10-11/57
1197-1201 - NYCTA 7027-7029,7098-7099 10-11/57
1202-1206 - NYCTA 7166-7168,7030-7031 10-11/57
1207-1212 - NYCTA 7100-7102,7169-7171 10-11/57
1213-1218 - NYCTA 7032-7034,7103-7105 10-11/57
1219-1222 - NYCTA 7172-7173,7035-7036 10-11/57
1223-1225 - NYCTA 7106-7107,7176 10-11/57
1226-1230 - NYCTA 7174-7175,7037-7039 10-11/57
1231-1236 - NYCTA 7108-7110,7177-7179 10-11/57
1237-1242 - NYCTA 7040-7042,7111-7113 10-11/57
1243-1247 - NYCTA 7180-7181,7043-7045 10-11/57
1248-1252 - NYCTA 7114-7115,7182-7184 10-11/57
1253-1257 - NYCTA 7046-7047,7116-7118 10-11/57
1258-1263 - NYCTA 7185-7187,7048-7050 10-11/57
1264-1268 - NYCTA 7119-7121,7188-7189 10-11/57
1269-1273 - NYCTA 7051-7053,7122-7123 10-11/57
1274-1278 - NYCTA 7190-7092,7054-7055 10-11/57
1279-1284 - NYCTA 7124-7126,7193-7195 10-11/57
1285-1290 - NYCTA 7056-7058,7127-7129 10-11/57
1291-1295 - NYCTA 7196-7197,7059-7061 10-11/57
1296-1300 - NYCTA 7130-7131,7198-7200 10-11/57
1301-1305 - NYCTA 7062-7064,7133,7132 10-11/57
1306-1310 - NYCTA 7201-7202,7065-7067 10-11/57
1311-1316 - NYCTA 7134-7136,7203-7205 10-11/57
1317-1322 - NYCTA 7068-7070,7137-7139 10-11/57
1323-1325 - NYCTA 7206-7208 10-11/57
1430-1469 - FACCO 2605-2644 08/58
1470-1568 - NYCTA 9022-9120 08-09/58
1569-1590 - NYCTA 9000-9021 08-09/58
1638-1677 - ST 3020-3059 07/59
1678-1727 - FACCO 2645-2694 07/59

foto_buff · Age: 80 Joined: 05 May 2007 Posts: 13

Two buses to add:

FACCo 2500 Yellow TD-5501 (aka TD-5401) 10/40
FACCo 2501 GM TDH-5102 5/49

Each was the only one of its model. Unfortunately, neither of these historic vehicles was preserved.

The Motor Coach Age history of Fifth Avenue includes a two-page featurette on 2500, which may have been called a 5401 due to New York State regulations governing emergency exit access necessitating a 54-seat configuration. After demonstrating in New York and Chicago, the bus was chopped, with a seat bay removed, becoming a 40-foot long "5001", and served as a demonstrator in Brooklyn (there's a photo of 2500 in Williamsburg in the Greller NYCTA 1946-1958 book) before FACCo finally bought it in 1948. 2500 was "shanghied" to Westchester before the city executed its takeover of FACL in 1962, but came to an inglorious end in a 1968 garage fire.

At first glimpse, 2501 appears identical to the 400 TDH-5101s built for the NYC Board of Transportation, but an eagle-eyed member of Yahoo!'s GM Old Look Bus Group pointed out heavier gusseting on the sheet metal surrounding each of the forward three sets of paired side windows and the single large side window. Given that body sheet metal in "monocoque" construction is integral to the structural strength of the vehicle, the added support in these areas was probably GM designers' response to a perceived potential weakness in the 5101, as I read in an MCA article that the BoT experienced cracking from metal fatigue on their 4510s and 5101s (Note that later GM 51-series buses had their side windows further from theie entrance and exit doors than did the 5101 and 5102, and the single side window ahead of the exit and emergency exit of later 4509s and all 4512s was smaller than that on earlier models as well). 2501 wound up serving MaBSTOA in the company of 5101s, and was probably retired and sent to scrap with them as well.

Q65A · Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the update, Vince, and also the interesting and detailed background histories!

ripta42 · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:34 am Post subject:

Does anyone know which ex-Surface buses were renumbered into the 3200s?

mike022756 · Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 2:03 pm Post subject:

W.B. Fishbowl · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:04 pm Post subject:

NYCO 2969 (TDH-4509, serial number 1119) from 1950 is perhaps most famous as the bus that Jackie Gleason and his Honeymooners cast posed inside and around as parked at the 56th Street side of the Park Sheraton Hotel which was Gleason's then-home/office, back around August of 1955 in preparation for the debut of the "Classic 39" episodes which were filmed a few blocks away at the since torn-down Adelphi Theatre. Only a year after those pics were taken, the company name as below the passenger windows would have been changed on that and all other buses under NYCO purview to "FIFTH AVENUE COACH LINES INC. OPERATOR" (and in the same Copperplate Gothic Bold type as under the old NYCO name) and was still active at the time of the 1962 MABSTOA takeover (being a NYCO bus originally, it stayed behind for MABSTOA to maintain while many originally-oriented FACCO buses were spirited away to Westchester; within about a year thereof, 2969 was repainted in the two-tone green livery assigned to all NYCTA and hand-me-down MABSTOA Old Looks); as of September 1965, MABSTOA (ex FACL, ex NYCO) 2969 was assigned to 100th Street (OHS) depot on the Upper East Side of Manhattan where doubtless it would have run on the 101 and 101A (now M101 and M102, respectively) lines and whatever other routes emanated from that depot; it was probably retired and scrapped at, around, or before/after the point the all-air-conditioned and -'batwinged' fleet of 480 Fishbowls (8301-8780) arrived from GM in January-February 1967, if not later, thus the spectacle of a TDH-5101, serial #290, originally NYCTS / NYCTA 4789, now being paraded every holiday season as "2969" (as early as 1984, from my memory).

Q65A · Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:46 am Post subject:

That is great intel, WB; thanks for this info!

W.B. Fishbowl · Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:38 pm Post subject:

Few queries:
- Wasn't ST's 1050-1059 order from 1953 (TDH-5104) renumbered 2590-2599 after 1962? And what would 3291 have been, originally?
- As of December 1965, MaBSTOA's 54th Street depot had ~100 buses, purportedly TDH-4509's, in the 2200-2299 range. According to that list, 2200-2299 would have been TD-4506's (2200-2259) and TDH-4507's (2260-2299) built between late 1945 and late 1946 for FACCo. But as pre-1948 buses were largely scrapped by 1965, were any "other" buses somehow renumbered in such series?

MaBSTOA 15 · Age: 71 Joined: 27 Feb 2013 Posts: 1156

Hope this helps to answer the question about 3291

W.B. Fishbowl · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject:

Looks like GM and/or OMOT, in its production list for TDH-5104's, was in error by listing the 1953 STS buses as 1050-1059 rather than 1090-1099. But yeah, much obliged.

(On a side note, anything in that MaBSTOA article about the massive 1966 changes following the Fifth and Madison one-way conversions, other than what was detailed in the pertinent thread in the pertinent section?)